Innova is awesome.
Its reputation has (at least) one unsightly spot, though …
Inconsistency between runs of the same mold.
In theory, pieces of plastic that are the same shape should fly the same. Thankfully, in spite of what a frisbee’s flight numbers might indicate, this is largely the case. But there’s more that goes into a golf disc than shape. And I’m not just talking about dome and parting-line height, either.
Here are a few more factors:
- The color of the disc.
- The type of polymer used.
- The presence of tiny air bubbles.
- The season in which the disc was made.
- The amount of time the disc was given to cool.
That’s a lot.
Here’s the deal, though …
When it comes to manufacturing discs via injection molding, accounting for the above elements is a process hardly exclusive to Innova. Pick your poison: MVP, Prodigy, Discraft, Discmania, Dynamic Discs, etc. They all account for the same stuff, much of which is out of their control.
So why does Innova catch so much flak for inconsistency?
Sample size.
Theirs is BIG.
The difference between Innova and (most of) its competitors is time. Innova has been pumping out golf discs since 1983. With 40-plus years of frisbees floating around attics, used bins, online retailers, brick-and-mortar shops and big-box sporting goods stores, the most vocal of critics have ample to work with. Love or hate Innova, they’ve got lots of experience with its gear.
Rancho Cucamonga produces more runs of more molds for more disc golfers than just about any other plastic-obsessed company on the planet. So yes, I know that first-run Wild Honey of yours flies like a gem. But give Clash Discs five to 10 more years of manufacturing experience on its résumé, and mark my words: By the sixth or seventh run, you’ll find a few differences …
Some will be small.
Some will be not-so-small.
But you’ll notice.
(and so will others)
Naturally, if you’re like most disc golfers, you’ll complain about them – I’m no exception. The Z-Line Scorch on the left flies like a perfectly beaten Champion Wraith fresh out of the box. I’ve even rolled it before, if you can believe it – and intentionally. However, the one on the right might as well be a Destroyer for my Slinky of a right arm – this is max-level frustrating.
Still, this doesn’t change the reality of the situation …
Inconsistency isn’t an “Innova problem.”
It’s one of injection molding.
Don’t forget it.
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Editor’s Suggestions:
- Pro Tour spectators: Leave your disc golf bags at home
- Not being an annoying disc golfer is an on-the-books rule
- Spit-outs vs. Cut-throughs: What’s the difference in disc golf?
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I feel like that was a big thing I heard about on the internet about the recent Time Lapse. Different colors were different levels of stability (though I reckon most were meant to be thrown by folks with bigger arms than myself). It’ll be an awesome day when someone figures out how to make each disc the exact same every time, but until then, it’s kind of fun to watch the chaos unfold as each run introduces it’s own uniqueness to the mold/brand/whatever else.
Yeah, just part of it, you know?
People are always asking for more “innovation” in disc golf …
The height of it?
Exactly what you’ve described.
Maybe one day. Haha.
Plus ain’t that flight numbers not science based? Like they are just estimates? Think i read that somewhere.
So we got a flawed manufacturing technique and a flawed flight numbers method….. It’s all chaos.
Oh, that’s a good question …
Not entirely sure, to be honest.
My guess is that each manufacturer works within the established flight numbers within its lineup.
From there, it’s a matter of cross-comparing, but I have no earthly idea.
I have some guys I could ask – that’d make for a great article!
Just an FYI there is a video online of Dave Dunipace talking about how he came up with the flight numbers and what they represent
Awesome!
Appreciate the tip 🙂
I’ll check it out.
I think we all know what they represent – but how are they measured to determine that one disc has a glide of 5 and the next a glide of 4?
Are the discs placed into simulations and “thrown” millions of times and those results determine the 4 numbers? I doubt it. I have a feeling it is a lot more guess work. The katana has a rim of 2.5cm and the shryke has a 2.3cm rim therefore the katana is probably a little more understable. Let’s call it a 13,5,-3,3? Sound good everyone?
I’d venture to say it’s largely guesswork, as well.
Fun fact: Dave Dunipace invented flight numbers.
I’ll see if I can find out some more information on this!
I believe that Clash has a little different setup with how they produce discs from all the others. At least with disc development they can produce new iterations much faster than the traditional manufacturers. Dont know whether it affects thw consistency.
Interesting …
I was unaware of this.
How exactly does the process differ?
This times 100. So tired of people complaining about the inconsistencies of innovas discs like it is unique to them. If you sell 100 times the discs of the next guy then you are getting discs in the hands of more people which gives the perception of greater inconsistency. In fact the scale is the same just a larger sample size. I own hundreds of discs and I have thrown from nearly every manufacturer and they all have the inconsistencies as you stated in your article. For my taste I actually don’t mind getting a slightly more stable or slightly less stable version of the same disc. I will carry both and use them when the situation dictates. A slightly flippy wraith for long glidey back hand drives, yes please. A slightly overstable wraith for full power fore hand drives, yes please.
Yup!
We’re on the same page 110%.
Prodigy has caught some flak for this, too.
In the past, Gannon basically made the exact same points you did.
Yes, if you’re looking for a SPECIFIC flight, it can be annoying …
Welcome to the gamble.
It’s just part of the process.
I know a big time beer blogger – he said the most impressive brewer in the world is Coors Light. They make millions and millions of gallons of beer and every pour tastes exactly the same. Their science is perfect. I’m not why this felt relevant. But innova isn’t Coors Light but they are the closest thing when you consider their scale.
I’m at the point I don’t even rebuy the same disc if I lose it I just get something entirely different but similar flight rating. Its fun to try out new discs and the replacement never flies like the one I lost (even accounting for wear some are just sooooo far off)
Isn’t it weird how this issue virtually never arises with putting putters?
(or maybe we just don’t notice – that could be it, too)
Innova isn’t the only inconsistent..Just the most.
Eh …
Prodigy?
Tough call.
Flight Numbers. Something I’ve always wondered… Since speed is merely how fast you need to throw a disc to achieve the next 3 numbers….
If a robot threw 3 discs with identical speed, spin, angle, height, etc…. How would their flights change if their numbers were:
9,5,-1,2
11,5,-1,2
14,5,-1,2
Which disc would fly furthest? Which the straightest? I’ve always wondered because i can get my 9 speed and my 13 speed to nearly the same distance. (I know i know speed number doesn’t equal distance…. But?)
Curiosity still exists. What says the green splat community???
In the situation you’ve outlined, hypothetically, I think they’d do the following …
Assuming they were all given a nine-speed’s worth of power:
* They’d all roughly fly the same distance.
* Discs two and three would produce a “dumpier” flight.
No?
What if they were all thrown at 14 speed power?
Again, in theory …
The speeds less than 14 are going to react more understable, as they’re being injected with more power than intended.
Would that actually happen in real life?
Eh …
No idea.
(but probably not)
In theory is the problem. Often i throw 2 off the pad and my 9 speed and 14 speed end up in nearly the same spot. And pretty similar path.
I don’t know what that means!!!
Are flight numbers even real?
Yes, I believe …
They’re a loose guideline for what someone COULD expect.
Taylor wrote this forever ago …
Don’t know if you ever saw it, but it’s a thought, at least: https://tinyurl.com/yz487nz3